Stop with popups while editing !!!

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Bronxgodzilla
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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#16 Post by Bronxgodzilla » 2009-06-13 18:50

The MOd said:
No way to turn off, like I said a million times before they are there to protect you against data corruption.
Sheer Nonsense!! Why not say it a million more times? How about answering the question everyone is asking, instead of condescendingly putting down your user base?

Like you, Robert, I have been doing ul/dl's since the late 80s when I programmed my personal copy of Procomm -- LOL!! Maybe the FZ programmers got the idea from TextPad -- which recognizes when a file has been edited by a different process while it has the file in reserve memory and asks the user if he/she wants to update the textpad copy. BUT you can turn this feature on or off, at will.

While it is something I just have put up with, saying no, no, no, no, etc. --- what has really grieved me is the lack of file conversion, ie forced lower-case, as in .HTM to .htm or other needs. Where I may keep a visual standard on my local HD like for instance a file called, "Personal-Log.php" my standard on my file server is "personal-log.php" and all my html files are written to look for lower case. I have been co-locating my own server for 10 years and have an entire system using lowercase and the same Mod just told me I have to manually redo hundreds of files because FZ doesnt do conversions.

Obviously there are many areas in FZ which are not well thought out. Others features are really nice, like the multiple instances of upload streams. Unfortunately this MOD is throwing me and all of us to the wind, & obviously does not caring if we stay with the program or not.

BarryG

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#17 Post by botg » 2009-06-13 19:56

This mod you speak of is your one and only FileZilla developer at the same time.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#18 Post by Bronxgodzilla » 2009-06-13 22:08

botg wrote:This mod you speak of is your one and only FileZilla developer at the same time.
Well OK, then 8) You certainly have put in a lot of work here, no question. Yet two valid user-experience statements remain on this thread:

1) the popups, while potentially helpful to the super-green newbies to file transfer protocal who must be reminded all the time a file could be over-written, still does need an on-off switch to the other 95% userbase. This switch is common to all other FTP client programs -- and even "would be-ftp clients" like dreamweaver, <grin> etc etc. Additionally, the popup function should have some local environment variables written to keep track of *which* directory the file originated from or was being originally written to, either on the remote server, local host, or preferably both. The way it is now I could more easily write to a new directory accidently -- more often then I would over-write my data (which I have not done in 10 years anyway). Coming from being myself an old Clipper head programmer and VizFox developer, this is 101 stuff -- as you well know.

2) for the past 24 years I have been in tech, whatever I was using (including DOS switches on the command line) always gave a choice to a) keep the filename as-is, b) force uppercase, or c) force lowercase. I am amazed this relatively simple but important function is not there, no disrespect intended.

I would like to keep using FZ. Can you give us some kind of ETA on the above features?
BarryG

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#19 Post by botg » 2009-06-13 22:28

So you actually want to get rid of the file changed notifications entirely so that all (re-)uploads have to be initiated manually from the "Show files currently being edited" dialog reachable through the menu?

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#20 Post by manarak » 2009-06-16 12:14

Hi botg,

I don't think your rephrasing of the request fits exactly the needs.

I do think that a button switching on and off local/server folder synchronization (and thus also switching off the messages) would do the trick.

Plus, if synchronization is switched off, filezilla could also allow file editing while in offline mode, don't you agree?

Like I just posted here:http://forum.filezilla-project.org/view ... =1&t=11578, the synchronization problem has cost me 3 days of sales on one of my sites last week.
I would very much like to be able to turn that feature off. Thank you.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#21 Post by manarak » 2009-06-18 08:11

ok, for everyone bothered by this, I found a workaround, sort of.

Reduce the local filebrowser in Filezilla to the minimum possible, and don't use that part of the program anymore.
Instead, open a windows explorer next to Filezilla, and use it as if it were the local browser, i.e. drag and drop your files into and from the windows explorer window.

Effects:
- no "file has changed popups"
- files can be edited while not connected to the FTP server

... et voilà !!

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#22 Post by spootieho » 2009-06-18 20:45

robert100 wrote:
spootieho wrote:I would rather put up with all my site info getting wiped.
I've been uploading / downloading files -- without popups -- and without problems -- ever since the days of 'bulletin boards'. For decades. Never have had a problem.

The mod's point about 'ftp software needs popups to avoid corruption' (did I get that right) is a new one for me. Isn't it the computer operating system's job to do the 'heavy lifting' of reading / writing files on drives without corruption???
Exactly.
The 'ftp software needs popups to avoid corruption' is quite ignorant. While I respect BOTG greatly, I am disappointed at the way he has phrased some of his responses here.

I have experienced an issue where I open a file to edit while it is currently being transfered. That has lead to error. The fix should be to prevent me from opening a file through filezilla that is currently being downloaded. The prompts I get are not relevant to this, though.
Last edited by spootieho on 2009-06-18 20:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#23 Post by spootieho » 2009-06-18 20:54

botg wrote:So you actually want to get rid of the file changed notifications entirely so that all (re-)uploads have to be initiated manually from the "Show files currently being edited" dialog reachable through the menu?
In a heartbeat! File change notifications are already handled by our editors and are much more pleasant in our editors.

Most of us know what files we are editing. We edit a file, and then decide whether we want to upload it or not. We use filezilla as our local file explorer while we are connected to our FTP site. Sometimes we might want to make edits to multiple files before upload. Quite often, multiple edits need to be made before an upload. We are also accustomed to use the date last modified column to see what files we most recently edited.

The prompts get in the way and are annoying beyond belief. Here is a usability lesson. Unwanted prompts will aggrevate your users more than just about any other usability flaw.

Why does your product get me so upset? Because I like it and I want to see it do good. I loved 2.0 and wish 3.0 was as easy and pleasant to use. Get rid of the annoying prompts and I will send a nice donation your way.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#24 Post by boco » 2009-06-19 06:11

botg wrote:So you actually want to get rid of the file changed notifications entirely so that all (re-)uploads have to be initiated manually from the "Show files currently being edited" dialog reachable through the menu?
If it's possible, I'd vote for an option. Sometimes a file is edited multiple times, but only uploaded at the end.
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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#25 Post by Bronxgodzilla » 2009-06-19 08:19

Hi Spoo
I have to say I totally agree with you and will also send a dono if the botg digs the true value of what we are talking about. I have to admit I am astonished he doesnt see what the experienced users are saying. (???) Your post totally echoes my experience and feeling. Thanks.

Are you listening BOTG? I mean, Really -- are you???
BarryG
spootieho wrote:
botg wrote:So you actually want to get rid of the file changed notifications entirely so that all (re-)uploads have to be initiated manually from the "Show files currently being edited" dialog reachable through the menu?
In a heartbeat! File change notifications are already handled by our editors and are much more pleasant in our editors.

Most of us know what files we are editing. We edit a file, and then decide whether we want to upload it or not. We use filezilla as our local file explorer while we are connected to our FTP site. Sometimes we might want to make edits to multiple files before upload. Quite often, multiple edits need to be made before an upload. We are also accustomed to use the date last modified column to see what files we most recently edited.

The prompts get in the way and are annoying beyond belief. Here is a usability lesson. Unwanted prompts will aggrevate your users more than just about any other usability flaw.

Why does your product get me so upset? Because I like it and I want to see it do good. I loved 2.0 and wish 3.0 was as easy and pleasant to use. Get rid of the annoying prompts and I will send a nice donation your way.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#26 Post by botg » 2009-06-19 08:33

From what I understand you do not want to use FileZilla as a file transfer utility but instead as a local file manager. You've got things like Nautilus, Dolphin, Finder or Explorer for that.

The whole point of the edit feature is to transfer the file (back) to the server once you've made your changes.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#27 Post by spootieho » 2009-06-19 20:51

botg wrote:From what I understand you do not want to use FileZilla as a file transfer utility but instead as a local file manager. You've got things like Nautilus, Dolphin, Finder or Explorer for that.
No, I can't believe you just said that. You are misunderstanding. We use filezilla as a file explorer for the site that we are editing. It is only natural to do it this way rather than having two windows open. It is so frustrating that you are brilliant enough to build such a great product yet fail to understand something so simple.

Why do you even give us an open or edit option? The answer is because we use it as a file explorer. If we didn't, then you wouldn't need that option.

botg wrote:The whole point of the edit feature is to transfer the file (back) to the server once you've made your changes.

"The road to hell is paved in good intentions."
I thought the whole point of having an edit feature was so that we could edit the file. The edit option makes FileZilla user friendly. We click edit on a local file in FileZilla so that we DONT have to open another window and find the file and hit edit.

With your logic, here is how your product should work.
We get one pane, which is the remote directory on server. There is no local pane. When we click on a file and hit edit, it downloads it to a temporary folder and opens it in our editor of choice. Once we have made our edit, it automatically uploads it to the server.

That will make the product complete crap.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#28 Post by botg » 2009-06-19 22:33

So you are connected to you server. You navigate to the local and remote directories containing your site.

You want to make some changes to the local files. You do so. FileZilla notices that and offers you to transfer the changed file to the server.

If you purely want to edit the files without ever transferring them, why are you using FileZilla in the first place?
Once we have made our edit, it automatically uploads it to the server.
It cannot be automatical. It requires user approval since it is technically impossible to detect when another program is done writing to the file.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#29 Post by spootieho » 2009-06-19 23:41

botg wrote:So you are connected to you server. You navigate to the local and remote directories containing your site.

You want to make some changes to the local files. You do so. FileZilla notices that and offers you to transfer the changed file to the server.

If you purely want to edit the files without ever transferring them, why are you using FileZilla in the first place?
When working with web files, there are many times that you want to edit multiple files and upload them all at once. Also, I might want to make some edits before lunch and some edits after lunch. I might want to edit the file throughout the week before I reupload it. Why do I get bombarded with prompts?

Have you even bothered to consider that someone could use FTP just to download files without uploading them?
botg wrote:
Once we have made our edit, it automatically uploads it to the server.
It cannot be automatical. It requires user approval since it is technically impossible to detect when another program is done writing to the file.
I pointing out how useless your product would be if you continued with that failed logic. It scares me that you have considered it already...

Your new policies also overwrite incorrect files in the wrong folders. That is a major bug! If I open a local file when in a different remote directory, it will save to the wrong remote directory. So now, the people that you were dumbing your product down for will have even more severe issues.

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Re: Stop with popups while editing !!!

#30 Post by spootieho » 2009-06-19 23:44

Why are you so closed minded on something that your users are begging for? I understand that it is your product and you can do whatever you want.

It just makes no sense to me that you would be so firm on this issue. Can you explain?

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