unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

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johnny_canuck
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unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#1 Post by johnny_canuck » 2021-07-23 13:43

So, as of this morning, starting FZ displays a 'popup' telling me a new version of FZ is available. Great! But, I don't want FZ to check for updates for me, and...I don't want popups, period.

So, under settings, set 'check for updates' to never. And, under 'Debug', make the debug menu available, and select 'Clear autoupdate data'.

Alas, makes no difference. Still get the pop-up alerting me to a new version.

So, how does one turn off the popup?

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botg
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#2 Post by botg » 2021-07-23 15:38

Just update.

johnny_canuck
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#3 Post by johnny_canuck » 2021-07-23 15:54

Seriously? I don't want to update. You mean I can't turn off the nag popup?

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boco
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#4 Post by boco » 2021-07-23 22:15

You mean I can't turn off the nag popup?
Depends on what the popup says and on how old your FileZilla is. There are two types.

The first type, appearing after a check for updates online presents the specific version it found and prompts you to update. Setting update check to Never and clearing autoupdate data should prevent that popup.

The second type, appearing after your FileZilla version has gathered some dust, looks similar but mentions that the update check has been disabled and prompts you to update manually. The second popup type (obsoletion timer) is then permanently enabled and cannot be suppressed in any way.

I don't want to update.
We only support the latest stable version and newer test versions/betas. With your old version, no further support/help is provided.
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johnny_canuck
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#5 Post by johnny_canuck » 2021-07-23 22:36

Sorry, thats overly Draconian, in my opinion. Fine, dont' support old version. But there is a difference between 'not supporting' and 'introducing annoying popups'. If I want to used an earlier version, then fine -- I'll understand 'no support'. But...(how to put this) 'leave my older version alone'. At present FZ may be the only application I've ever used that has a nag-ware that inserts itself in an older version, and can't be turned off. Even Micro$oft doesn't pull a stunt like this. I can use old Word just fine -- at no point does MS start popping up a persistent warning that I should update.

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botg
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#6 Post by botg » 2021-07-26 08:55

Just update.

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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#7 Post by jesse » 2021-10-24 12:58

So I turned off "Check for Updates" under File -> Settings -> "Check for FileZilla updates automatically" -> "Never"

However, now there's a pop-up when the FileZilla Client is launched saying that "... new update could not be retrieved."

That new pop-up is equally annoying as the regular pop-up telling me about updates. :roll:

Here's a AHK script for Windows to automatically get rid of the pop-up. :idea:

Code: Select all

#Persistent
#SingleInstance force

#NoEnv  ; Recommended for performance and compatibility with future AutoHotkey releases.
; #Warn  ; Enable warnings to assist with detecting common errors.
SendMode Input  ; Recommended for new scripts due to its superior speed and reliability.
SetWorkingDir %A_ScriptDir%  ; Ensures a consistent starting directory.

Loop{
	if WinActive("Check for Updates")
	{
		Send, {Esc}
	}
	Sleep,50
}

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botg
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#8 Post by botg » 2021-10-25 09:13

Why spend all this effort, if you could instead simply update?

Venture
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#9 Post by Venture » 2021-11-30 01:28

To echo the OP, why can't updates and their constant pop-ups simply be turned OFF by users?? I don't get it. This is the only software I've ever used that won't let its users stop the pop-up spam.

When updates are set to "Never be checked" we still get the popup below every time the app is launched.

As to the question of "why would anyone not want to update" ... many of us use this software once in a blue moon to quickly FTP something and get on with life. The goal of that rare session is as stated, to FTP something. Not to go off and download the latest update, not to dismiss a pop-up reminder to download yet another update, and not to dismiss the "I can't check for updates" pop-up that we already thought we disabled.

Are there any sympathetic devs on the team who might fix the "Never" combobox to actually never check for updates? 🙏

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botg
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#10 Post by botg » 2021-11-30 08:24

many of us use this software once in a blue moon
That leaves several moons to update between the appearance of update prompts.
fix the "Never" combobox to actually never check for updates?
It doesn't check for updates if set to Never. You can verify this with a packet sniffer.

Venture
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#11 Post by Venture » 2021-11-30 16:28

There seems to be a misconception here that users are "anti-update". What I think everyone is saying is that they're anti-popup spam.

Many of us use FTP software infrequently. Once every two weeks to a month. It's used for a very specific task. To get something done.

Many of us also look forward to updates. I manually check VLC player for updates, to see if they fixed something or added functionality. VLC is updated very infrequently. It's considered mature software.

Filezilla is on the other end of the scale. It's mature software that is still updated with violent frequency. I'm glad it's well supported and not abandoned, but, for example, there have been 20 or so updates this year alone. This means, for many users, EVERY SINGLE TIME they launch the software they'll be prompted with yet another update notice. Read that sentence twice please.

This is the reason I and others finally resorted to trying to stop updates. I just want to FTP one damn file and move on with life.

So, to repeat, the actual issue is not the update itself, but the unstoppable POPUP SPAM when the tool is launched. Either it's an "Update is Available" or, after the hidden doomsday timer expires, "I can't check for updates". Can you not imagine how annoying that second pop-up is for users? We know you can't check for updates. We told you not to check for updates. Why are you now telling us on every launch that you can't check for updates??? That's frankly insane. Hence, this thread.

However, as engineers, we look for solutions. I can imagine a few:

1. Replace the Update is Available popup window on launch and replace it with a toolbar button that appears when an update is available. This would notify the user in a way that doesn't interrupt their workflow.

2. Give users a selection to update on close. JDownloader does this. It updates quietly on close, with no Windows interference or Windows confirmation needed. However, their software is Java-based. I'm not sure of their technique or if non-Java software has such a mechanism. And, of course, this would require development work.

3. Simply let users opt-out of the startup popup spam, which is what everyone here is asking. In the tool's parlance, this means removing the doomsday timer and the "I can't check for updates" popup window.

[Cheers. And though my and others frustration should be obvious, we are thankful that you have created this software and that it is free to use.]

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boco
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#12 Post by boco » 2021-11-30 17:02

First, if you set update check to never, you are not bothered for a long time (3 months IIRC). Only then, the build considers itself obsolete and asks you to do an update (it doesn't actually check). That's hardly "spam".
Second, unless you're surfing on Grandma's old 19.200 baud modem, the update takes literally less than ten seconds. Once a month. That's too much for you?
Third, the online world is changing constantly (and not for the good). FileZilla has to be updated to cater for that change. You don't want to be protected from the latest security threats?
Either it's an "Update is Available" or, after the hidden doomsday timer expires, "I can't check for updates". Can you not imagine how annoying that second pop-up is for users?
Yes, of course, it is DESIGNED to be annoying. Just update, YOU will get your peace back for the next grace period, and WE will get one less potential candidate for a zombie botnet because of outdated stuff. Win-win.
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Venture
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#13 Post by Venture » 2021-11-30 17:24

boco, you guys are clearly religious about the issue, as seen by all the official responses in this thread. The issue is that this software is updated with a VIOLENT frequency that EXCEEDS the use-model of many of your users. Multiple times per week in some cases. These are not all critical security issues. At what point does FTP software become mature when I'm only using the client and connecting to servers I know??

So, you've deliberately designed something to be as annoying as Microsoft Windows and determined that you know better than all your users how it should be handled.

Very unfortunate. There's an old saying that goes like this: "I'd rather have my life ruled by the first 50 people in the Boston phone directory than by the entire faculty at Harvard." In the context of this discussion, I think you understand the meaning.

But, to repeat, thank you for the software and all the work that went into it, but as a fellow UI developer, I'm aghast at your design choices and the way you all are handling this feedback.

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boco
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#14 Post by boco » 2021-11-30 18:08

The issue is that this software is updated with a VIOLENT frequency that EXCEEDS the use-model of many of your users. Multiple times per week in some cases. These are not all critical security issues.
The software updates approximately one time per friggin' month. Unless there are some urgent quick fixes for showstopper bugs that users like you complain about (and rightfully so). The update popup appears one time when you start FileZilla, you can simply close it and defer the update; nobody actually forces you to immediately apply every update that arrives. After the popup is closed, the message resides in the menu bar.
At what point does FTP software become mature when I'm only using the client and connecting to servers I know??
For a software operating in a networked environment, that's easy to answer: NEVER, ever. It absolutely needs to be constantly updated, the more often the better. The bad guys aren't sleeping, either.
So, you've deliberately designed something to be as annoying as Microsoft Windows and determined that you know better than all your users how it should be handled.
I didn't design anything, I'm not a developer at all. But, the truth is, many users are incredibly lazy and ignorant of the update matter. They need to be strongly encouraged or even being forcefully fed the updates, because, if given the choice, they will never move by themselves.
Even Microsoft has correctly recognized and solved that problem, updates are fully automatic, now. There are only two things they do not consider or ignore: first are the power users who can care for their systems themselves, the second issue is that their updates are often, well, flawed.
FileZilla could also have fully automatic updates, but it asks you for confirmation. Power users can set update check to Never, but they should be perfectly capable of applying one update every three months. Being a power user is not an excuse for being lazy. And should an update be flawed (which happens very rarely, as new versions are actually tested, unlike with MS), we have a download server where you can get older installers until the problem is fixed.

Last but not least, should you really not want to update, ever, just close the popup, it won't return in the middle of the session.

I'm aghast at your design choices and the way you all are handling this feedback.
That's because the truth often hurts.
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Venture
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Re: unable to prevent 'new version available' popup

#15 Post by Venture » 2021-11-30 19:47

The software updates approximately one time per friggin' month
boco, many folks use Filezilla "once per friggin' month", or even longer. That's the part you guys aren't understanding and why the current approach is so clumsy and annoying. For the once-a-month user, the update notification appears EVERY time the user launches the tool.

Further, that idiotic doomsday pop-up is lying to users. You don't actually know that a new version is available. Tim K. confirmed that the software doesn't check when set to "Never". What that popup should actually say is "Your version is out of date".

But, again, I didn't register an account here just to bitch. I'm trying to put forth some ideas on how to make this less annoying.

If the actual goal is to keep users up-to-date with critical security fixes then why not create a way to distinguish those from regular updates and only notify the user when there's an actual security fix? (An option could be added in that Update combobox "Security fixes only", and remove "Never" since it's not doing anything useful anyway.)

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